Dutchie about to order a 2x4

Howdy! Time to introduce myself.

Took the decision, ordering a 2x4 altmill with 2.2kw spindle and will have it shipped to the Netherlands.

Just waiting on the confirmation of the sales team on how to place the order to make sure proper info is on the documents for tax and customs as i’m ordering it on the account of my company.

Now i’m debating myself and also trying to keep myself from splurging unnecessary a lot; order a probe for z height? Order a TLS? Tslots and clamps, does a man really need that? Hmm that touch screen does look good but adds quite to the bill…

From your experience. What would you recommend I get now? And what is also just fine to upgrade along the way?

Also looking into dust collection. Looking at this machine now or something similar: HBM 100 Stofafzuiginstallatie

My thought being that this might be better then a shop vac of some sort.

Based in NL. First time CNC owner. Ready to rip some scrap wood.

Cheers!

Alex

Edit: placed my order yesterday, went with the zero touch plate and TLS as accessories!

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@CuttingTheCrapAlex Welcome to the forum.

@Spamming_Eddie will be so happy that another Dutchman is on the forum. But he will be jealous of your Altmill. Actually he won’t be. Because he knows it’s not the size of the tool you have, but how you use it.

Touch screen is nice but the Sienci screen is small. You might be better off buying a larger touch screen and a separate computer. That said, their gControl is a fanless machine, which is nice for the shop.

For accessories, don’t forget that you can make a lot of things with the CNC. Clamps especially.

Auto zero touch plate is nice. I don’t think the TLS would be usefull unless I had the ATC. But that’s just me.

As for dust extraction, do some research on high pressure-low volume systems vs high volume low pressure systems. They perform differently. I have a HPLV system from Record Power in the UK. It’s like a Shop vac on steroids. Works well with the 1micron filter I have. When I use the dust shoe, there’s very little airborne dust in my shop. Even my touch screen usually stays dust free. The one you show is a HVLP system.

Dear Chuck, the Dutch are the root of all MUHAHAhaaaa. Always on the cutting edge of someone elses achievements. (pun to insert semantics on topic so I can avoid deletion while unclamping yet another topic.) The Dutch hide in plain sight, but if you look closely it will become obvious something is frighteningly wrong. In case I peaked your interest, start off by asking yourself how a country the size of a post stamp is the #2 food exporter of the world. Be careful, this borehole isn’t just deep, it loops back onto itself. It was carved by a country that has been using mills for longer than some exist.

After you did some reading into this, ask yourself why yet another cheesehead has been assigned to this forum. Spoiler: It can’t be good. That said.

Hey @CuttingTheCrapAlex ,

Welcome to this new post. I’ve been softening these boards for a while now and am pleased to announce you will land in a well made bedstee. Not too soft, not too hard, but just right to start a new assignment.

When I imported my longmill, I did so outside any corporation umbrella. Customs was not pleased and refused to send it as a hobby machine to my adress without a btw/kvk number. I had to push many shady buttons to get approval of my unusual import. Since you are importing inside an approved umbrella, you should be fine.

To answer your musings about extras. My machine is as basic as it gets. No switches/sensors on the axis, no dust extraction (though I do own a dustboot, I could never figure out how they are better than the long perfected wooden shoe.) No level nor squared table and not even a waste board flattened to the machine. I do own a xy touch block and the auto touch, but settled for centre zeroes and z touch offs, reducing the need for xy zeroing . I do recommend the simple xy zero touch block. It’s a helpfull tool, even if you only need to zero z-hight. Toolings for clamping and jiggs are made on that amazing machine you are going to play with soon. They are great starter projects.

Hope to see you post your projects soon. If you have questions or need additional intell, just read my earlier posts, or use the secret gesture, and I’ll come in and post some weird mumbo no one understands, and writes off as a dutchy being blunt.

Thanks for the pointers!

Good point on the touch panel. In Sienci updates they’ve also been sharing to be looking at improving it. So yeah, I’m also curious to find out what their iterations will look like.

Why would you only use a TLS with a ATC?

Making the clamps is a great one! Making them out of wood makes me as a beginner also feel comfortable. If i run the machine in to them I guess there is a lot less worry about this breaking.

Thanks for the direction on the dust collection, you recommend high pressure because of suction power?

What I meant is that the TLS is of no use to me since I have the AZTP. Some people may find it useful.

As for the dust extraction, I’m not recommending one system over another. I’m not experienced enough to give definitive advice. I just wanted to point out that there is a difference between HPLV and HVLP. Noise, filtration, duty cycle, suction power, etc are all different. For a CNC, which produces both dust and chips, it’s debatable which is better.

While it is debatable which technology is the best for dust extraction, I can say that without a doubt the CFM (or m3/min in Europe?) rating is the most important rating for a CNC dust extraction system. You want to move as much air as you can to catch anything that tries to get airborne.
I don’t recall ever seeing the HPLV vs HVLP designation in dust/chips extractors.
A lot of people use regular shop vacuums for that duty and are happy with the results especially if the extractor sits right next to the machine with a very short hose run.
I have tried 1HP stationary units as well as 3 HP units. I am currently running a 5 HP stationary monster with a 6 inch diameter main collector line with branches to various tools and am absolutely over the moon with that setup. I get coughing fits if there is too much dust in the air in my small shop. That is no longer an issue for me.
Since you probably have a shop vac, I would recommend starting with that and see how you make out. You will want a chip separator in front of the shop vac because there is a surprising amount of chips created by a CNC router. If you just use the shop vac built-in collection system you quickly loose air flow when the dust filter plugs up. With a cyclonic type separator, 95% (or more) of the crap drops out before it gets to the shop vac.

As far as a TLS setup - it probably saves some time but you still need to do the first z zero measurement by hand and you get pretty good with that after a while. A TLS is pretty much a requirement with a tool changer so if you think you will end up with a tool changer system eventually then you might as well get it early since it doesn’t add a lot to the cost. If you are not sure where the CNC journey will take you then I wouldn’t bother unless the budget easily allows for it.
A probe for Z height on the other hand is highly recommended! That can take the form of a regular touch plate or the upgraded version that does x/y in addition to z. I went for the autozero touch plate and I am glad I did.

There are multiple ways of holding your stock. I went with a system of dog holes and some jobs are done with double sided tape, others prefer T slots and there are various vacuum holding systems as well. Different jobs call for different work holding systems. Recommending a specific system is really tough and IMHO is best sorted out after you had some time playing with things.

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@Jens Same.

HPLV are usually called dust extractors. They are typically smaller and would include ShopVacs, Festool, Mirka, and the RecordPower CamVac extractors.

HVLP are typically called dust collectors. Although some have a large canister filter, most have large filter bags. The filter does need to be larger because suction decreases significantly when it gets clogged.

Definitely need an interceptor or separator with an extractor.

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Sienci is currently developing a vacuum clamping system. Can’t wait to see what they come up with.

Yup, same here. I gather they will reveal early details at the IWF in Atlanta in August and likely in the August company blog.

In my opinion, unless you are in some kind of “high production”, the ATC is not worth the money. I have been running “hobby level” CNC for 4 years now and still can’t justify the complexity and cost of a ATC. That being said, it can be added later.

Software is another issue. I use an old 2002 version of AutoCAD, but also use QCAD.org, a cheap modern CAD program. Vectric.com is my choice for producing gCode, starting with the cheapest Desktop version and gradually upgrading to VCarve Pro, paying only the upgrade cost with each step as my requirements advanced. If your CNC is from Sienci.com, than gSender is the software to take the gCode and send it to the CNC machine.

A little personal experience will show you quickly what accessories will be useful to your type of projects, something very hard to predict.

Invest in good dust collection after reviewing what everyone else is doing. I use a 1.5hp Dust Collector from Grizzly Industrial with a 4" hose to the Dust Shoe.

Almost all the supplies and accessories can be made yourself, or added as needed.

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Your posts read like stuff straight out of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy haha.

Thanks for the welcome. Your lean and mean setup sounds just great, who needs bells and whistles anyway when the thing already does what you need it to? But yeah when shopping for new toys.. I like to buy once cry once and BIFL proof my purchases as much as I can.

And the irony on the import. Here I am stressing out they send it with the right detail to make sure they don’t process it as a retail package at customs so I wont be able to claim the tax back.

Chuck mentioned the clamp making as well, any suggestions on particular designs you like to use?

4 years ago, I made my clamps out of ply which was a mistake because they tend to crack when used with force. I however still use the same clamps I made as a simple starter project. They are not much to look at, just some rectangular pieces 100mm long, 20mm thick, and wide of ply with a slot to fasten them and give them freedom of reach. A pocket at the front gives it a way to lock stock in place.

Simple, effective and not corrosive for endmills when they strike them. (Wich I did a lot.) Here’s a pick with a bunch of them in various state of destruction while still working like charms.

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Ha, simple as that. Awesome!

@Jens @Dnick Thanks for sharing, really helpful. Just have to get working with it I guess to really understand my specific needs better.