3D Laser etching?

I think this could be done with separate tool paths for each elevation. All the lines for say 4200 should be at the same z and therefore the same distance from the laser. Be aware that to steep of an angle on a mountainside might make the laser hit the model depending on how far the laser focal point is and the shape of the laser itself.

I think the really hard part would be to laser a hiking trail or river that went up/down a mountain and had all different z values everywhere.

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Hi again!

I also received a similar response in the LB forums. Someone mentioned that each topo height line could be a layer set at a specific Z height. I guess that would inherently cause less complexity in my design due to the number of lines I would like. Some simple math would be done from highest Z to lowest Z / Z / number of lines giving each lines topo height. I am not using it for surveying, so accuracy is not even an issue. If it looks “right” and nicely accentuates the model, I am all for it. :slight_smile:

Thanks @_Michael

@Lutraphobia WP: Do you have a .crv file in Vectric for an example of what you are trying to do?. That is, without the laser tool paths. I have a thought that I would like to play with using my laser to add in the accents. If you don’t, if you can point me to a source of the models, I can work from there. I’ve been a few sites, but never been successful in bringing one into VCarve to play.

Hi @gwilki.

I am not using Vetric. Too pricey. :frowning:

I see they have a trial, I can play around with that and send you what I have.

Here is my current workflow right now:

Combine as you see fit. It can get a little busy with the rivers, roads, and the topo info when overlaying in inkscape. Also, you must tweak the files a bit to get them aligned. I tried to do all the above on 12 zoom in each Google Maps image - 3D Model / Axis Maps for Topo lines / Snazzy Maps for Roads and Rivers. It’s not perfect. YMMV :thinking:

  • Import into your choice of toolchain software. As mentioned, I am not using Vetric but I’ve downloaded the VCarve Desktop Free Trial.

Findings:

All the FILES I used are at that link - STL / SVGs / CRV / reference pics, etc.]

Anyone can DL and play with them. However, if you do, all I ask is that you just report back here and let us know what you find!

Thanks and Cheers!
-Lutra

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If you have a topographical 3D model, what is added by burning contours of the same thing? Looks really confusing, too.

I can see it being interesting adding roads and towns, but there isn’t going to be much room for the labels. At least some of them will be burned onto the side of a hill where it would be tough to read them.

It would be interesting to add shading for time-of-day effects with the laser. I don’t have a clue where you’d get that information. :smiley:

PS. In my experiments on wood, the JTech laser with the precision lens will purty much stay in focus for a little less than a 1/2" of Z movement.

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@Lutraphobia Thanks for all the info Lutra. I’ll play with it all during the week and let you know if my ideas produce anything good. Just FYI, the trial version of VCarve will let you save files, but not actually run them. The only files that you can run are their trial-compatible files. You can save files for later use in the paid version, but that’s it.

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Sup @CrookedWoodTex! Thanks for replying and your questions.

Love Texas! Just visited with my family in San Antonio last month.

Right now, it’s just an experiment of the mind. I plan to make these maps from large rounds. They will be big and have some depth to them. Still waiting on my Sienci laser.

I love topos and have done orienteering in the past - personally and in the .mil. I use them a lot for hiking and overlanding.

I fell in love with being able to make 3D models of geography, albeit I am just a beginner. I have made some through additive manufacturing (3D printing) and now through CAM.

I am no artist, but I understand depth and texture are important. As is scale. If I can project that onto my models, I think they will mean more for those I give them to.

My thinking is that having a 3D representation of a topo map would be badass. At least to some people I’ve talked with.

But I also love mechanical and technical challenges. Even if it’s not “the topo lines”, this is fascinating to discuss.

I believe having the ability for us as a community to be able to burn a 3D model and keep laser focal length perfectly set with Z manipulation would be beneficial. That would save valuable time on any project. I really don’t want to have to set the focal length manually in the middle of the project. I also don’t want to set x number of layered tool paths in my project.

Isn’t that the core of CAM mentality anyway? Maybe I am just new to this and missing the point. Or maybe because I know I am lazy and just want to make it easier for things I don’t prefer - working hours in 3D CAD programs. The AI / math should do that for me.

I am rambling now. My apologies for such a long answer to your question. Perhaps this is niche. The majority of etching, cutting laser work may be 2D only. But if the functionality is there, I think 3D etching would be a notable feature to innovate the hobbyist’s platform forward.

Cheers,

  • Lutra

Thank you for looking into it @gwilki!!

All the raw files are there on the share. I wasn’t aware of the limites vcarve file functionality since I just installed it last night. It’s in a VM anyway so I could just wipe it and not have it on my main computer. Still playing with it in Fusion 360.

I’ll watch this thread to see your findings. I’ll also play around with lightburn.

Can’t wait to get my laser. Think it’s on a 6 week back order. Bummer.

-Lutra

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:smiley: San Antonio is not Texas anymore. Its more like Mexico and South America in the same place.

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I just saw your posts. Are you talking about something like this? If so, I can give some detail on how I did this

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That looks amazing. Love it

I would love to know more about how that was done. It’s beautiful.

Hi @martindg,

Thank you for your generous offer.

It looks like you have some other fans as well.

I think we would all love to know more about your style and recieve some inside knowledge on how you went about building an amazing piece of art.

My main question would be, how much Z does the laser traverse. Also, how did you solve for focus.

I actually just finished this piece today. My largest Mt. Rainer range yet 10" x 11" x 1.5". It’s just a test piece. Interesting enough, the wood grain in the pine, once oiled, really made the rings look like topo lines. Can’t wait to get my laser and experiment more!

Thank you!
-Lutra

Now if you can adjust the thickness of your pine layers to match the Z distance of the map’s topographical setting the lines really would be accurate! :smiley:

Actually, those lines can be changed by using a different type of glue. I usually see waterproof glue lines more. How about experimenting with adding color to the glue (since it isn’t really structural) to change the visibility of the “topo” lines?

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martindg, forgive me for what might be a dumb question, but, was that cut on a cnc and then the laser was used to put in the elevation and roads? This is all kinda mind blowing to me.

Right!?! That would make it easier @CrookedWoodTex. LOL. Damn mother nature. :wink:

This material is just cheap HD pine boards that I used as shelving at some point in the garage. They are 11.5 x 6 ft long x .75" thick. I just cut a couple of them down and glued them together to get 1.5" to accommodate the peak. Pretty simple. But I like how it came out.

Your idea of laser etching in shading would be awesome. They make shader maps, but I haven’t seen any online sources that allow me to download them as a SVG or any other file.

The work that @martindg did is similar to how I would like my finished product to look. Even if it isn’t topo lines on the map, it would be nice to get the standard climb to the summit on there. Depending on the size of the model, it could create the challenge to the beam to traverse 3.5 to 4" in Z.

We’ll keep digging!

I response a couple of the questions about the map project. @MikeH you are correct in that the 3D maps was was first cut with the CNC and then I used the laser to etch on top of the 3D model.

The process is fairly straightforward although a bit time intensive also. To begin with I use Aspire. I know its pretty pricey but it has the capabilities that I wanted to use for the projects I wanted to so I bit the bullet and went for it a couple years ago.

Similar to what @Lutraphobia described, I use TouchTerrain (https://touchterrain.geol.iastate.edu/) to grab the STL model of the area I’m mapping. (Very similar to map2stl but I prefer it as it gives me a little bit more control over the actual are that will be modeled.)

I then grab a screen capture of the 2D map on the TouchTerrain site to get a bitmap of the basic landmarks (e.g., roads, buildings, waterways, etc.). I would like to be able to get a vector based representation of these landmarks but I haven’t been able to find a suitable site for that type of file. I will also sometimes grab bitmap maps from the ArcGIS site if I want more landmark details. Since these are bitmaps I will use the Aspire bitmap trace function to convert to vectors. This can be a pretty tedious part of the process as the bitmap first need to be rescaled to match the STL model (which can involve a lot of trial and error). Once scaled to size I next run the bitmap trace to get the best set of vectors I can. This involves manipulation of the bitmap (changing contrast and game levels, etc) to get he best trace and then quite a bit of node editing to get the vectors cleaned up and useable.

At this point I have the 3D model that is scaled to the stock that I’m going to use and the overlaying vector for the landmarks that I’m going to etch into the final project. As to the stock I just use 3/4" HD plywood laminated into a 1.5" thick blank. I like the plywood as the plus give a pseudo-topographic effect and the different textures of the plus provides some interest to the project.

Carving the 3D model is pretty straightforward using a 1/4" ball nose as a clearing bit and either a 1/8" and 1/16" tapered bullnose for the final pass. (I also use Aspire’s 3D modeling tools to create a uniform 1/8" deep pocket for the the lake that is created as part of the 3D carving process and then eventually resin filled.)

As for the laser etching, I purchased a 3.6 watt diode laser off of Amazon for $90. I 3D printed a mount for it that attaches via magnets to my Z axis. The laser has a focusable lens so the distance between the laser aperture and the work surface can be changed from about 25 - 60ish mm. I created two post processors for generating laser tool paths; one that incorporates Z movements into the laser tool path and one that omits all Z movements. When I laser etch flat parts of the project like the compass rose and the legend I use the post-processor with no Z movements. For etching the landmarks on the map, I generate the tool path using the “Project onto 3D model"option and then use the post processor that includes Z movements. To actually do the laser etching, I determine that maximum depth of the model (which is usually around 1.25” or 40mm and I focus the laser to a little more than that depth so the tool path can follow the 3D contours without bottoming out.

I suppose that may not make much sense but let me know if there are any specific questions about this process.

Wow! Thank you so much @martindg. I appreciate the detail you provided here. Yes, very similar to what I am doing. I love that you created the “Z” laser movement. Would you mind sharing that post processor that incorporates Z movement and explain how the laser is controlled by the software (on/off) while moving between vectors?

Would you say it’s similar to the Jtech laser PP that @gwilki mentioned above?
Vectric Laser Module PP - J Tech Photonics, Inc.

Again, thank you for the great info and participating in my post.

-Lutra.

What I learned is I have a lot to learn! Thanks you for the information.

As to the post processors…I have a OneFinity Woodworker but instead of the OneFInity controller I use the OpenBuilds BlackBox. I use gSender for sending g-code to my machine (which is the best GRBL-based gcode sender IMHO and how I got the this forum). As mentioned in my previous post I use Aspire as my CAD/CAM software. Anyway, as I am using the OpenBuilds BlackBox controller and gSender I do all of the g-code stuff under the GRBL umbrella. In Aspire (and all Vectric products - I think - such as VCarve) you create custom post processors using a template file that defines how you want the g-code to be formatted and generated. For the most part the default post processor templates will work without modification. I modified them a little bit as I wanted to put some project information in the header bit the actual g-code movement portion of the template is basically unaltered for both my router/spindle and laser post processors. The one big exception to this is that I created a second post processor for my laser and I removed all references to Z axis movements in that file. I titled this “GRBL_No_Z” and if I use this with a toolpaths the tool path will be generated with no Z movements (such as I mentioned for etching the compass rose and legend). If I use the unaltered post processor for a tool path and set the ““Project onto 3D model” option the g-code will move the laser in the Z Axis also. Below are two quick examples of the post processor template files showing one with Z movements and comparable portion of the “No_Z” post-processor showing that I simply removed all Z references in the template so no Z movement will be inserted into the g-code.

  • Laser_with_Z post processor file segment:

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for rapid moves
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin RAPID_MOVE
    “G0[X][Y][Z]”

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for the first feed rate move
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin FIRST_FEED_MOVE
    “G1[X][Y][Z][P][F]”

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for feed rate moves
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin FEED_MOVE
    “G1[X][Y][Z][P]”

Comparable segment for the “Laser_No_Z” post processor file:

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for rapid moves
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin RAPID_MOVE
    “G0[X][Y]”

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for the first feed rate move
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin FIRST_FEED_MOVE
    “G1[X][Y][P][F]”

±--------------------------------------------------

  • Commands output for feed rate moves
    ±--------------------------------------------------
    begin FEED_MOVE
    “G1[X][Y][P]”

In terms of controlling the laser so it fires correctly from vector to vector, fortunately GRBL takes care of this for me. GRBL has a laser mode setting; setting $32 = 1 puts GRBL into the laser mode. ( In gSender selecting the Laser Mode setting in the Spindle/Laser control panel will put GRBL into the Laser mode. When in the Laser Mode (i.e., $32 = 1) the controller will manage sending a signal to the laser to get it to fire at the correct power output and will only fire the laser when the X and or Y axis are in motion to prevent scorching at vector transition points. (Thats a pretty general overview of laser Mode. The GRBL home page has a much better explanation.)

Anyway, that’s what I do and it seems to work.

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