According to Oct Production Video, Altmill 4x8 will be $7500 USD + $3000 for ATC. how do you feel about this.
this is more than I expected. more than double the 4x4 price., which is suprising considering the X axis feels same.
also approaching similar pricing to a base 4x8 Avid
Well the $3000 ATC is very approachable considering that it’s a first-party solution and using a taper tool interface (more robust than a rapidchange).
As for pricing, it’s also twice the amount of machine hardware-wise. I’m sure there are some cost savings due to sharing of extrusions and other hardware, but there’s also new hardware (rack/pinion) that doesn’t benefit from volume discounts, and came with its own set of development costs.
Compared to the rest of the market for a 4x8 machine with rack/pinion and ballscrew Y with hybrid steppers, I think that pricing is very competitive. Coming with grblHAL (supporting open source) and being Canadian (like me!) are also personal value factors that I appreciate.
Looking to the recent Longmill price decrease, it shows that Sienci is willing to adjust pricing downward to market as well as with improvements in manufacturing processes - so if the 4x8 model takes off, I’d bet that’s on the table. The sheer logistics to store/ship/process the physical size of the parts definitely has a cost, which probably affects how the price was decided.
-Colin
Is the $7500 a ‘final’ price or is that price a preliminary price?
While going from $4300 to $7500 seems a bit on the steep side considering that a good portion of the mechanics and all of the electronics is re-used, there are considerable development costs that have to be covered for a machine that likely will not be as popular as the 4*4 Altmill.
I am pretty sure that an additional factor is the market of comparable machines. If the Avid is directly comparable to the Altmill 4 * 8 then being almost $3k cheaper makes the Altmill a bargain. I am pretty sure that the market will indicate in short order if the Altmill is reasonably priced or not.
As a side note - it’s a substantial plus in my books that the Altmill is a Canadian product. I try to avoid doing business with anyone based in the USA if I can avoid it. I would go as far as to say that if the 4 * 8 Avid is directly comparable to the 4 * 8 Altmill, I would purchase the Altmill even if it was priced identical to the Avid …. simply because of the Trump factor!
I’m struggling with the 4×8 pricing.
What changes vs 4×4: primarily longer components—Y-axis extrusion, drag chain, linear guides/ballscrews (or racks), and cable length. You’re not duplicating the entire X or Z, and the connector count stays about the same.
What a 4×8 adds:
~2× extrusion length
~2× legs/base structure
Y-axis: rack-and-pinion drive (instead of ballscrews) + transmission hardware
~2× Y-axis drag chain/cabling
Some additional R&D/engineering
Given that, I’d expect roughly a ~50% uplift over the 4×4—significant, but not a complete re-machine.
Current pricing:
2×4: $2,790
4×4: $3,160 (≈ 13.3% over 2×4)
4×8: $7,500 (≈ 137.3% over 4×4)
That 137% jump feels disproportionate to the parts and engineering deltas.
Ohhh …. my bad, I used the Canadian price $4300 in my earlier reply but the $7500 was apparently a USD price. I have not been able to find the video update that the OP refers to. Could somebody post a link please?
Yeah, going from $3160 to $7500 seems excessive. Hopefully Sienci will give some justification when the new mill officially lists as being available.
As the moderator, I accept that I need to be circumspect in posting. However, I must say that I find it unreasonable to expect Sienci to justify their pricing to anyone, much less set out their costs and profit margins.
We all have the option to take our business elsewhere if we believe any company is not giving us value for our money. I expect that we all do that damn near every day. This should not be any exception.
I’m sure there will be many perspectives on pricing, there always are, but one of the more productive points that was mentioned on the Facebook thread is that the machine’s price can never fully reflect its raw material cost - one must also consider the other costs we have to take on as a business when it comes to selling larger machines such as larger facilities, assembly hands, material storage, requiring more precision from longer components are likely to increase scrap rate, also it’s a new motion system we’ve not dealt with before and there’s a lot to consider to ensure it works comparable to the existing AltMill options.
There’s more still that can determine pricing, but at the end of the day we have to do our best to make sure that it’s a good price that we can endeavor into larger machines while still sustaining our business, while also balancing a fair price to our community who have been asking for this type of machine. In terms of being able to buy two 4x4s instead of one 4x8, that’s also a totally viable decision some people might make. 4x8 machines should really only be considered if you need to make projects consistently that are that size, otherwise getting a 4x4 and doing some occasional tiling would be the better choice for you I think.
@Jens Here is the link to Andy’s latest update
This is not the first company that has possibly mis-understood the market. It appears that the 4 x 8 machine is desirous to compete with the true commercial machines, without being a commercial quality or offering commercial standards. This is not uncommon with rapidly growing companies. The lacking marketing experience often clouds the vision. Much difference in the commercial world with many more issues that just price.
