I’m doing a survey preparing to upgrade my CNC to a 48x48 machine. I’m considering AltMill, Onefinity PRO Series Foreman and Shapeoko 5 Pro. Any feedback, pros/cons of each would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Hey Rambo,
Welcome to the forum.
I own none of these machines and am only slightly known with the altmill because people on this forum own it and post about the beast and make me all green grumpy and smile like I have a rotten teeth.
What I miss in your post is what you are going to do with the machine, what you expect the machine to be capable off. You know, a bit more detail on why and how you compiled the list of machines you posted and maybe elaborate a bit on machines you considered, but didn’ make the list.
There are a few youtubes on comparing machines. I believe theres one on altmill vs a onvinity. I bet there are more out there comparison vids out there to look into.
So I can only add a sidenote as to what makes sienci a good or bad company to go with.
As all fast growing companies, it has its problems.
There is a backlog when ordering the altmill so don’t expect a order now, recieve tomorow timeline for the altmill. In a hurry? Remove the altmill from your list.
Sienci is a canadian company. So if yer ordering into America, there’s tarrifs you might get slapped with. At the moment shipments get delayed at customs. Better take that into account. It’s a bit unclear and messy atm.
Sienci goes above and beyond. If there’s a problem, your problem will get solved.
Sienci has a huge information library on their products. The whole bunch is open source so if there’s a part that’s 3D printable you can get the files for free.
If you need spare part, you can look up what you need, and source them anywhere.
That’s about what I can contribute.
Hope you get the best machine for your buck! Good luck, there’s a lot to consider.
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I might be uniquely equipped to provide some insight on this question. I own both a Shapeoko 3 and a Onefinity Woodworker. After some recent weirdness and unhappiness with Onefinity and how they do business I think I’ll be moving on from their products and to an Altmill. My 2 cents on each product below:
Shapeoko - I got a Shapeoko 3 in 2017 (I think?) and ran it pretty hard. I was a huge fan of it but as the hobby space evolved the belt and v-wheel design became pretty under powered and obsolete. I know the new Shapeoko designs have ditched this for this reason, but I still don’t think I would purchase a Shapeoko 5. The main reason for this is the Carbide Motion software. I’m really not a fan of it. Their whole ecosystem seems a little bit too closed off for my liking. It feels almost like buying an Apple product. It’s cool, sleek, shiny, and definitely a fantastic product, but it just doesn’t jive with me personally.
Onefinity - Great machine. Super sturdy, don’t have any major complaints other than with the company themselves. If I was in the market for a machine today I wouldn’t get another one due to the design and the price. Being Canadian, with them charging in USD, and the shipping prices being pants on head insane is the deal breaker for me. The idea of spending almost $1500 dollars to ship a machine two provinces over makes my skin crawl. The upgrade path they offer is also a really cool perk, however the price to do so is so crazy, I don’t know why anyone would. If also wouldn’t recommend going the route of buying a ‘Pro’ series machine at all. Software is definitely not their strong suit, and since they’ve forked to their own version of the Buildbotics software, and have their flagship models running off of Masso, you’re kind of stuck with second rate software that will never get to modern hobby CNC standards.
Altmill - Obviously I don’t own one yet, but the reason I’m making the change is pretty simple. I love the design, and how open Sienci is. I can literally download the model for all their products and make any tweaks I want to make to the design. I haven’t even ordered the machine yet, and I have a full wasteboard and dust boot system designed for it. I had to measure and model the Onefinity machine when it was delivered to have my own reference of the design. I do mechanical design professionally, and the design the mech team has put together for the Altmill is pretty much bang on how I would do it myself. Nice and simple design, but super robust. The two rail design on the Onefinity makes tramming the machine a nightmare. I can either get mine trammed perfectly in the center, or at the extents of the axis, never both. The Altmill design seems like this will likely not be an issue, and if it is, making my own modifications to fix that issue will be much easier. Also the GSender software seems like the perfect level of complexity for Hobby grade work. Masso is nice, but I find it to be massive overkill for what most of us home gamers are doing.
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I recently had the exact same decision, I needed a machine primarily for long relief carving jobs, but I also only have a small single garage shop.
I didn’t fancy the high sided onefinity, plus didn’t want the masso controller sticking out in the middle of my space. I have no mechanical design experience, but I found it strange they offer a third bar for the X axis to make it more rigid, makes me think it’s not rigid enough in the first place.
I also used to have a Genmitsu 4040 pro, which follows the same design principles as the onefinity, so I know how flexible the X rail was.
Forums also suggest the motor on onefinity can’t hold a spindle from dropping when powered off, and it isn’t strong enough for a big spindle.
The onefinity also has smaller motors, one of the reviews linked above demonstrates that for relief carves it’s half the speed of the altmill, so it was a no brainier for me. He also mentions in the review that onefinity are releasing firmware to allow the motors to speed up, and they’re discounting the machine, which I read as them trying to complete with Sienci, knowing they’ve been outclassed.
Now that I have my Altmill, I definitely made the right decision, its rapid.
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I have a Onefinity Journeyman. The machine is super sturdy and more or less well designed. The controller is absolute garbage and the company is a dumpster fire.
If you look on the 1f forum it’s only positive comments. That’s because they actively delete any negative comments or criticisms and they actively block people if they thing you’re being too critical.
They sold a nice machine with a super crappy controller and then told everyone how great it was and wasted hours of my time upgrading and downgrading the firmware to no effect. Myself and many others now run an older mostly stable but clunky version of the firmware that mostly works. I’m afraid to upgrade. When I say it took weeks of my time, I mean weeks.
Anyway I really don’t know much about Sienci but they seem pretty upfront and the machines look well thought out.
For me a big plus is the stand is included. My 1F is on a kreg table which ends up taking up like 12" extra in each direction and I could really use that space.
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Thank you all for the very helpful responses. Many of the negatives/positives I agree with, as well (Shapeoko being a closed architecture, the rail stability, company support, community support, etc.). I’d prefer the AltMill lead time to be shorter. The Vortex Rotary is also of interest, and if I pull the trigger on the AltMill, I’ll add the Vortex. I hope the tariff issue doesn’t affect the order if I place it; the total as of today doesn’t reflect anything. And I’m mystified as to why shipping province to province in Canada is so high; that’s almost worth a road trip to pick it up. And my usage is for my furniture work. Many components I cut on my CNC for accuracy and repeatability. At times the table size on my Shapeoko limits me, and I no longer want belts and V wheels on the X/Y due to accuracy issues. I cut non-ferrous metal at times, and my current machine struggles. The feed rates I have to set the toolpaths to are very slow.
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I’m far from an expert, but my situation is similar to others. I have a Onefinity Journeyman, and I’m generally happy with the mechanicals. I chose to buy without a controller, since I felt that their controller options are all overly expensive for what you get - instead I’m running with a Super Long Board (this took longer to get dialed in than I expected, unfortunately). I’m really only just working through the learning and moving on to ‘real work’.
If I were buying today, there’s no question that I’d go with an AltMill. Mechanically the best design in the segment, GrblHAL controller architecture, a company that seems to be very open and IMHO focused on high-value functional solutions.
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All the responses already made I pretty much agree with, especially the part about the Buildbotics controller.
I started with the Scienci 30x30 and really liked it, but like others I outgrew it and wanted Ballscrew drives without V wheel rails. When I was ready to move up, Scienci was just producing the MK2 Longmill which didn’t eliminate what I didn’t like about the MK1. So, I opted for the X50 Journey and did get the BB controller because I liked the idea of it being a stand alone controller, but I soon found out it didn’t even support setting work stations as well as other standard CNC functionality. The only thing I liked about it was the game controller for setting up positions.
I really liked Scienci’s gSender and the Longboard controller with the Longmill 30x30, so I bought their SLB controller with a gControl Panel and that solved the BB controller problems. So if you do go with the Onefinity, buy it WITHOUT a controller, besides being way over priced, you can get the SLB with Scienci’s new gControl Panel and have a really nice machine. Which is what I have. I call it a Scienci 1F.
My recommendation is to get the Altmill, it’ll be worth the wait. Scienci is really good at gearing up production once they have their product worked out.
Also, Scienci’s support is 2nd to none.
Hope this helps.
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Competition? There is no competition… at least if you factor in price. $2000 more for any comparable 4x4 benchtop machine. And that’s why you can get any of the others in a week or two but you’ll wait months for an AltMill.
Based on what I’m seeing in their order spreadsheet you’re looking at an October delivery if you order today. Figure… there are 425 orders in process today. They shipped 53 in the last 30 days. Just doing the math it means that we’re looking at an 8 month wait.
Manufacturing doesn’t work like this. You can’t do a straight line extrapolation and say that’s that. They could be waiting on a single component that is holding up production. So they might only be able to ship 50 in one month, they get a restock of parts, and can ship 250 the next month.
Not saying that IS what’s happening, but I wouldn’t draw a straight line through a single data point and call it anything other than a guess. They have estimated delivery times much earlier than October, and they know their supply lines. I’d tend to trust what they’re estimating.
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April will tell the tail. The spreadsheet claims they will ship 190 between now and the end of April.
I thought it was just me. They deleted and closed comments that I made. They were not even critical comments just comments about using other companies’ stuff with their machine. I then made a post about the mods that was a little critical and it was deleted right away. I also found out that they were reading PM’s to other users too. That is their right I guess. I had just spent 8K with them the week prior to my posts. Thats when I realized that 1F is not a company I wanted to deal with. Order was cancelled and I got my money back. Went straight to Sienci labs and bought an Altmill. I currently own a Shapeoko 3XXL so Im good until the Altmill gets here. BTW, customer support was awesome at Carbide 3D.
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There are so many false statements here that I cannot stop myself from joining this forum and try to get thing right.
The old Onefinity machines had a z-axis that was dropping only when the 80 mm spindle was installed and the motor powered off. That problem has been solved more than a year ago, the newer models have a build in z break and everyone else that purchased before can upgrade their stepper motors at a very moderate price.
The Onefinity has smaller motors? No so sure about that. The Onefinity/Masso closed loop stepper motor have a torque of 1.2nm. That is enough to drive a 6mm bit a full depth at a speed of 15m/min though a sheet of plywood. That speed is so high that you do not get a clean cut, and no one in his right mind would do that except for testing purposes. The max speed and the acceleration can be adjusted in the Masso controller by the user. I personally reduced the acceleration on my CNC, have slightly longer cuts but better surface quality. I am not running my CNC 24/7 anyway.
I am not sure what kind of motors the AltMill has, I did not find that info on the website.
Now the controllers:
The onefinity comes with two options: The pro version with the Buildbotics controller, which is bases on the Rasperry Pi and pretty much garbage.
I am sure the Altmill controller will beat this controller.
The Elite version come with the Masso controller which is in my humble opinion just amazing. Customer support is outstanding. Is has 5 axis control which enables 4 axis indexed cutting on the rotary. I would be curious to know if the Altmill has this capabilities?
Now in terms of rigidity the Altmill is certainly far superior, no doubt.
I bought my Onefinity when the Altmill was not available, otherwise I might own the Altmill now just for the fact that cutting aluminum would be easier to handle on the Altmill.
I would still miss the Masso controller. And I need indexed 4 axis rotary machining.
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I saw where OneFinity had the motor dropping issue I’m glad they got that fixed. I guess that is at least one false statement that was true at some point. If you look on the resources tab at Scenci’s website, you will find that the Altmill uses 2.0NM motors on the X and Y axis and 1.2 on the Z. They are NEMA 23 closed loop motors. I too like the Masso controller. What I did not like was Masso wanting to shift to a pay per play setup. I wonder how long that will stay backed off of that.
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I think most people did also misunderstand that. The Masso subscription is optional, only to enable remote monitoring, and maybe for future software upgrades, I am not so sure about that. I am not planning to subscribe and there is no way that they force their users into a subscription.
I have not even upgraded to the latest Masso software, I think I am two upgrades behind. The main reason is that the Masso controller is so reliable. I never had a failed cut caused by the controller since I bought it.
And yes, the Onefinity forum is heavily monitored and censored. They do not want any third party systems run on their machine except the ones they approve. RapidchangeATC is approved, PWNCNC is banned from their forum. They went so far to modify and delete all their old posts to remove the term PWNCNC.
That is funny. That is where my first problem began. I asked about PWNCNC’s spindle vs The OneFinity Spindle. I had not a clue that they were anti PWNCNC though…at least until now. I was really surprised that they would dump a sale because of it. That also brings up another reason I like the Altmill…open Source!
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That correct, they have started pushing the third party Redline spindle recently, I am not sure why, either they get kickbacks or they are scared of competition from PWNCNC, which just released their own very promising Dominator CNC.
Anyway Onefinity with those steps (Censorship and pushing inferior thrid party products) Onefintiy is digging their own grave. I think they will inevitably fail in the long term anyway due to the lacking rigidity of their machines.
You know how there is two sides to every story. You heard mine and they have theirs. Either way, I agree about the censorship. The fact is, I had already bought their spindle and I was not going to buy the pwncnc one because I wanted all my stuff supported from one company. I did see the youtube vid where he was talking about the rigidity and I had already paid for the OneFinity. It was not enough of a concern to request a refund. I was still good with the purchase. I also liked the fact that it has an ATC and I bought that too. I did look at the pwncnc too but it was more than I wanted to spend. I was at the top of my limit at 8K with the 1F. Either way, I’ll quit beating a dead horse now and return you the point of the thread…lol!
It’s worse than just not allowing the word PWNCNC on their forums anymore. They actively edited users posts to CHANGE recommendations from users from PWN to their own brand. Literally changing the intent and purpose of posts to something the users didn’t say.
I own a Onefinity and because of this and their other business practices, it’s the only tool in my shop I regret buying. So greasy.
Edit: Aiph5u, one of the most prolific and productive posters on the Onefinity forums did a write up about the whole situation you can find here. It’s a great read. I highly recommend it.
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