Looking for some advice before buying

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I am thinking of buying an Altmill 4x4. The things I want to make are guitars, furniture, cabinets, and carvings. I am currently proficient at fusion 360, blender and autocad(I do civil modeling for Trimble survey equipment and tractor machine control at work). I also have done alot of 3D printing. I am pretty good at starting from 0 and learning complex processes.

I am thinking of buying the Altmill 4x4, vortex, spindle, Autozero and some bits to get started. I have a Makita VC4710, a good computer for modeling and a 4k chromebook for Gsender. I have a spot I can add a legit dust collector in the future, Iā€™m also considering an enclosure to manage noise and dust. I do have a hanging hepa filter already for fine dust.

It feels a little outrageousdropping nearly 5k to get started in CNC. Most of the things I am wanting to make are larger and I do think once I am up to speed I will use this alot. Talking with my SO she is supportive of me spending once to get a machine that will do everything I want.

My questions are

  1. Should I be considering something else to get started or is this a good plan?
  2. I have to run power to the machine is there a significant advantage to going to 220v route for the spindle? I was considering getting the 110v 1.5kw directly from sienci do you suggest something else? My interests are mostly cutting wood but I could see doing some aluminum for guitars and possibly some small survey instrument parts. I could also see drilling aluminum enclosures.
  3. Should I get the vortex from the start or add it later? I am thinking I would do carvings, legs and possibly guitar necks with it. I havenā€™t seen any guitar necks being done on one but it seems like it would be ideal. The longer size could do neck thrus even. I havenā€™t seen alot of videos showing it in action. Is it able to move along the X,Y and Z axis or does it lock out Y when using it? I can see advantages to being able to mill faces if it works on the Y axis also.
  4. For bits should I get the Altmill starter set or something else. AltMill Starter Set | Sienci Labs

Thank you for any feedback you have. I am looking forward to getting started with CNC.

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@DailyDovetails Welcome to the group. Here are my humble opinions. Iā€™m sure that you will get others.

  1. Judging by the price that you are quoting, you are in Canada. I donā€™t believe that there is a better machine available for the money. Further, support from Sienci is outstanding!
  2. If I were you, I would run 220 to the machine. The 110 spindle is underpowered for the AltMill. Sienci has said as much in their blogs.
  3. Short of saving on shipping, there is no advantage to getting the Vortex right away unless you plan to use it early on in your CNC experience. With the Vortex connected to the SLB-ext that comes with the AltMill, it is capable of true 4 axis application.
  4. The altmill starter set is a reasonable place to start. It really depends on the projects that you will be doing.
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  1. Itā€™s a good plan

  2. Run a 20A two circuit line. Two circuits give you 220V over the two circuits or 2* 120V. This is assuming you are in North America.

If you have the room in your breaker panel you might want to consider running two double circuit lines as the incremental cost is insignificant in case you decide to go for a 220V spindle which is only a tiny increase in cost.

  1. Unless you have an immediate project, buy it later. There is a pile of stuff to learn and the mill will keep you busy for a while.
  2. I chose to get bits from Amazon. Significantly cheaper and although they might not be as high a quality, they will do the job. Get premium bits once you know what you are doing. I am partial to SPE Tools and buy them in sets of 5 for best value. I would choose a surfacing bit with replaceable inserts unlike the one that comes in the starter kit.
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I donā€™t think the 110V spindle is under powered but I agree that the 220V spindle is the one to get for the minor increase in cost.

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@Jens I should have been more clear. Sienci has said that the 110 spindle will hold the AltMill back from its maximum capabilities. They actually tested a 4.5kw spindle and found that the AltMill was capable of higher feed rates than even that spindle tool handle.

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Thank you for the feedback. This is helpful so far.

To add a few things Iā€™m in Northern California. My first few legit projects will likely be garage cabinets, desks, a workbench and organizer type stuff. I work from home and the garage is my office. My first fun project will likely be an early Fender telecaster copy that I have been working on in fusion.

I have plenty of room in my panel so thinking running 4 breakers would be good. The lines only need to go about 10 feet. That would let me run the 220 spindle, machine and have one left over in case I want to run a dust collector or something else on it.

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@DailyDovetails As the saying goes, buy your second machine the first time.

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Things I learnt:

Get a couple of really cheap bits to learn with, as well as a selection of soft and hardwoods to play with. You will break one or two bits as you do stupid cnc tricks, no reason to tempt Murphy with the expen$ive bits :slight_smile:

Iā€™d suggest: 1/4" upcut endmill, 1/4" downcut endmill, 1/8" downcut endmill, a 60Ėš V-bit and a surfacing bit.

If you can make Fusion play nice with CNC gCode, great! While I use it for my 3D printing, Iā€™ve found Vectricā€™s vCarve to be a better fit for what I do. Step 1: set up a workflow and tool chain that lets you easily get from idea to gCode.

A sheet of MDF and a table saw make a great first spoilboard. Play with the up and downcut bits to see how they behave, get familiar with feeds and speeds, chip load and what good -vs- bad chips look like. Watch Garrett @ IDCā€™s beginner videos.

Make a couple of jigs (example on etsy) out of MDF as an excuse to learn by doing.

Use the machine to mill out a real base/spoilboard with dog holes or threaded inserts or T-Tracksā€¦
Learn how to do vCarve inlays and make a sign for your shop.

My ā€œorder of purchasingā€ list would be: Altmill, ER20 Spindle, autoZeroTouch Plate, a couple of cheap bits, dust collector, dust boot, Tool Changer/ATC (either Sienciā€™s or Rapidchange, depends on your givens and druthers), good bits, ā€¦ vortex can always be added later.

In other words, be methodical, master the basics, and have fun!

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I appreciate the reply with links. I think I will need all the help I can to get started. I have seen the t track tables but hadnā€™t considered using dog holes but do use them on my workbench now. I will have to think on which way to go.

Seems like the consensus so far is wait on the vortex and start with some inexpensive bits. I hadnā€™t thought much about the ATC just due to the price but it does seem like a good add one once it get things down.

I have looked at V carve and am guessing I will end up adding it at some point. I like the idea of Fusion but am open to learning other things if they work well.

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If you are thinking that the ATC will be a requirement down the road, I would use a Makita router as a temporary measure rather than buying a spindle that has to be changed if/when the ATC is ordered.

I had thought about the ATC but I can do a lot of manual tool changes for the price of the ATC. Maybe when I win in the lottery ā€¦..

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I put in an order for the 4x4 Alt Mill, 220 spindle and auto zero touch plate. Now I just need to get my space ready for it. Going to try and run all the electrical, ethernet and a few other improvements before it comes. Thank you to everyone for the help.

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I think @JPlocherā€™s bit selection is a good start. I would add that if you want do any relief carving you should add one or two ball nose bits. You can do a lot with an 1/8-1/4" ball nose and a tapered ball nose for fine details.

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Iā€™m a new AltMill 2x4 user. I moved up from a ShapeOko XL. Iā€™m also a member of a CNC intense Maker-Space and a local Zoom CnC Users Group. ā€œCNC is just another tool in my shop.ā€

One more thing to remember is that VFDs that provide power to spindles are big EMI generators. This can cause unexpected errors in your carve or even project halts. (Donā€™t ask me how I know.)

Consider using double shielded cables between the 220v power input to the VFD and the cable between the VFD and the spindle. This is one reason it is recommended that you have a separate 220 V line to the VFD. (You said you have room in your electrical panel for that.) There is lot of information on line regarding this VFD EMI. There is no need to go down that rabbit hole. Just make sure the single point shielding grounding is at the VFD. ( Ground the shields on the VFD side not the 220v receptacle side) Also measure the resistance between ground and the frame to make sure it is less than 6 ohms.

Happy carving

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Thank you for the heads up on the possible emi issue. I will source and wire it up with shielded from the get go then. I am running a 220, a couple 110 circuits and ethernet to the machine.

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Question on the spindle based on info in this thread. I have ordered a machine, but have not yet received it.

I ordered the 1.5kw spindle. The reasons were that I already have suitable circuits for it, and Iā€™m an old retired guy and not a business, therefore getting things done ā€œfastā€ isnā€™t all that big of a concern.

I do have a panel in my shop and can fairly easily add a 220v circuit, so itā€™s not all that difficult.

Now Iā€™m wondering if I made a mistake and should have gotten the 2.2kw spindle?? Since my machine hasnā€™t shipped yet, I can probably call Sienci and change the order.

Any advice?

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The 1.5 will be fine. Unless youā€™re doing production work, it is powerful enough for most everything youā€™ll need to do.

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I agree, the 1.5 kW unit is fine for most things ā€¦. but if I was buying a machine right now, I would go for the 2.2 kW unit if adding an extra circuit or two wasnā€™t much of an issue. The cost difference is minor and it might even be a selling point if you ever decided to sell the machine.

PS.: I am not ashamed that I have ā€˜Tim Taylorā€™ syndrome.

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@gabo the several thousand users that came before you all got the 1.5kW ER16ā€¦so limited to 3/8" mills. And theyā€™re likely satisfied. I was lucky to get the 1.5kW ER 20. The only 1/2" mill I use is a 1.5" diameter surfacing bit, for which I use small pass depths to prevent burning. I use the 220v feed that I have for my dust collection system.

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@gabo Another thing people look at is air cooled vs water cooled. There are benefits to water cooled, but noise is not one of them. Most of the noise comes from the mill cutting and that will be the same regardless of which one you get.

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Thanks guys. The new ones are the 1.5kw ER20. I do have quite a collection of router bits in 1/2ā€, not all of them are appropriate for a CNC, but some of them are. Sounds like the 1.5kw will be fine for my purposes. FYI, I believe the 2.2kw is also air cooled..