Hi folks. My name is Brian and I am preparing to order an Alt Mill. One issue I need help with is MAC or Windows for software. I see Ventric is very popular here and looks like a great choice. My issue is this. We are a MAC household here. I pads, I phones, Mac laptops and Mac Minis. We left Windows over 15 years ago and never looked back. I intend to order a Altmill 4x4 , spindle and the console computer, which I will dedicate to the Altmill, along with the other bits required to get up and running. I would need to purchase a windows laptop to do the CAD CAM with Ventric. I could also go with Carbide Create Pro on a MAC. I have no experience with CNC. I have decades of experience maintaining laboratory equipment for a large clinical and Environmental lab, so I am familiar with a lot of the hardware used in hobby class CNC machines. I am looking for perspectives on the pros and cons of both software solutions. It would be somewhat useful to have a Windows machine around here, however, the extra expense to get a reliable Windows setup is a consideration. Thank you in advance for any help you can offer on this decision.
Regards
Brian
First of all welcome to the forum. Great folks and lots of help. I’m not a Mac expert so take these answers with a grain of salt. I’m sure someone will correct me if I err. With that in mind there are couple of options that I am familiar with as follows:
- Run Parallels which allows you to install Windows like a virtual machine.
- Run WineHQ which allows you to install Windows apps directly on the Mac and handles all of the necessary conversion from Windows commands to Mac commands internally.
Check those options out and if there are any other options available someone will chime in hopefully.
We’re a Linux house here so I bought the gControl and upgraded the RAM and run Vectric on it. I also attached a secondary monitor, away from my AltMill so I could work more comfortably…
That said, I installed some remote software onto it so I can remote in an work on Vectric from my Linux laptop.
So far no issues with memory or GPU capabilities for it.
@whitewolf Great suggestion!!! I am going to pickup a gControl for Vectric. Great thinking!!!
I am a Mac user and I have been running Vectric on Parallels to generate Gcode. It works well , I have had some success with a few of the free emulators but they are seem brittle. I don’t really like running windows on a Mac.
For CAD software I was using Fusion360 but moved to Rhino about a year back. Rhino is very cool with a couple of minor caveats
- It backs into parametric modeling with grasshopper (which is great but a big plugin)
- The Mac version is very good but feels like a bit of second-class citizen to the PC version, especially for plugins.
Recently I gave the makers edition of Solidworks 3DExperience cloud apps a try. It works but feels a persnickety. I am now playing with the free version of Onshape and it is pretty slick.
So as Mac person for today I would vote for Rhino for creative work and Onshape for parametric.
My 2¢
-marc
@Bfpca @Infield welcome to the forum! Great people here, that will provide excellent advice and more importantly a great environment.
I adopted the Apple platform in 2011 and haven’t looked back since. When I seen that VCarve Pro only ran on Windows, I was very disappointed. I also tried running Windows on my Mac, and didn’t like the clunky way it worked. So, I swallowed my pride and purchased a refurbished Dell laptop and use an old flat panel monitor for my design computer. There is much to hate about doing that, but mostly little things that I finally got over. What I found interesting is that GSender had a Mac version. So my initial setup included my design computer, which is my Dell and my 2011 MBP which ran my LongMill. I transferred files with a thumb drive initially, then switched to a cloud common location where I drop off the file and pick it up. Sadly, my 2011 MBP finally died this last winter and I was left with using my design computer for both functions while I searched for a solution. While the computer Sienci offers was very attractive, I wanted to keep what worked for me. Design on a Windows and carve with a Mac. So I located a new old stock Mac Mini from 2018 which was a steal and paired it with a wireless mouse and keyboard. For a display, I used a free flat panel 32” television that someone was giving away. The mini is kept far from my CNC machine and I connected it via a network cable to my SLB. The wireless Apple keyboard and mouse control my CNC just fine.
Will Vetric ever make a Mac version of their software? I highly doubt it. Do I hate having a Windows computer? Yep! Do I like my set up with GSender running on my Mac? Yep. This works for me. Your mileage may vary, but this works very well for me. Once again, welcome to both of you. I look forward to seeing what you create!
Jake
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I feel for you - I hate needing a Windows PC to run Vectric - I cannot understand why so many software vendors exclude Linux & Mac - I am not a developer by any means but have played in C and Python over the years and cannot imagine it is that hard to make it work across multiple platforms.
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definitely 2nd the Cloud or a home NAS setup. Most of my machines are networked to a NAS so I can easily share files across them and I cannot recommend this enough.
Thank You everyone for your replies. I am new to this and it is obvious that I have a lot to learn. Your responses have presented a lot of different ways to get the job done. I would like to keep things simple. I don’t want to get bogged down in Windows issues when I have so much to learn about CNC and whatever software platforms I am using. How is the reliability of Windows lately?
I used it at work for many years but we had an IT dept to handle any issues that came up. Has anyone had experience with Carbide Create Pro? It has a MAC version and it shows up in the software list on the Sienci website. This would be the simplest solution for me but I may not have much support. I could go with it for a year for 120$ and see how it goes. If it’s a disaster I am not out a lot of $ to switch to something else.
I have not had any issues with the Windows installation that is on the gControl. That said, many of the historic issues with Windows start during one of two activities: 1) Installing new apps, or 2) Installing updates.
The version of Windows on the gControl is the iot version which is somewhat different and less bloated and I personally have only installed gSender, Vectric, and IPCam onto mine. You can disable or otherwise control update settings to only happen when you wish to help minimize #2.
Hi Brian,
I am a longlonglong time windows user. In fact, I never seen a mac working in my whole life. They are not big in home pc’s around here, only a small niche in the graphic industry seem to use them. For simple tasks I source old pcs in second hand stores and there too, ive never encountered anything appley. So by default I am stuck with windows. Do I like windows? Meh, it’s an os, the only os I have used besides some early experiments with ubuntu. Because I could not get my Matrox triplehead working on that os, I obandoned it as soon as realized I could not get an easy fix for it.
So I am not a good source for info, exept maybe to plea for windows not being as instable as some seem to think. My design pc is an aged I7, I had put together as a multi media pc - high end video and audio starting from a then brand new solid state drive.
It has run win7, win8 and now win10 wich I will not replace with win11 untill the shd it’s installed on burns out. It was build in 2012, if I remember correct. Never had windows issues. It had a shorted hd a few years back that stopped it working for a while and last winter it stopped working till I figured out that freezing temps prevented the power supply from waking up.
Other than needing a fohn on chilly days to preheat the machine, it keeps going strong and I find myself admiring the machine for its stamina.
On the cam side I have a small DEL I5 windows machine that although vectric and lightburn are installed on it, for fast back up reasons. -that i7 isn’t going to last for ever- it primarely runs gsender.
I keep updates user prompted only. Mostly while shutting down the machines and never on both machines at the same time. As stated above, gotta keep #2 in check as much as possible.
I think Windows isn’t as much as a problem it used to be as long as you dedicate the machines to only a few tasks and you have a well built machine, up to the task you intend to use it on.
My 2ct.
I’m primarily a Mac user. What types of items will you be creating in CAD? What types of materials will you be machining? Primarily aluminum? Primarily wood?
My CAD of choice is FreeCAD. Works well across platforms, and works great on Apple Silicon Macs. They have a CAM module, which is a bit “brittle” but works OK with a little trial and error. Other than that Fusion is a good product for both CAD and CAM, that works well on Macintosh, but I’m hesitant to recommend it for CAM, as they have a nasty habit of "defeaturing the free version’s CAM features. And, as a hobbyist, the paid version is more than I wish to spend.
I think it is good to have a machine dedicated to connecting to the SLB to run gSender. In my case, I have a ProxMox server with a number of Linux virtual machines, one of which is a Debian Linux VM dedicated to gSender. I access this server using remote access tools such as the very poorly named free Windows App (from Microsoft). You could certainly dedicate an older Mac mini or similar to this function.
I had similar choices to make. After a few years of using Parallels to run Carveco, I finally dedicated a small Windows 11 Pro computer, purchased from Amazon, to my CNC machine. The Carveco Plus software ran far more efficiently… with no waiting while the virtual machine interpreted everything. I only use the Win PC for this one task (CNC machining) and there is a huge subset of great software you can run that does not have an analogue for the Mac.
Currently I am using Carveco Plus, LightBurn and gSender for all of my machining needs. If it is an option, then a 4 inch mini cube PC with all of the internal requirements to work effectively (Win 11 Pro, 16GB RAM & 500GB Storage) is likely to be enough and not provide issues that using a virtual machine can occasionally arrange. I can communicate between the Win PC and my Mac mesh network via Microsoft’s Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP).
EDIT: grammar
I just got the email for this post. So, I am late to the party. Looks like a great range of answers already. So you already know about Parallels.
I will say, if you do go with a Windows machine just for this use case. I mainly run Linux myself. I do run Vcarve and Fusion 360 on a small mini PC that is loaded with Proxmox.
Proxmox is a headless server that allows you to remote in and spin up VMs and containers. I use that as my file server, Home Assistant, Plex server and other handy VMs.
That said, Vectric Vcarve Pro runs just fine on an old i3 with 16gig RAM. No need to build a super computer or a gaming rig with a high end GPU.
Good for you on ProxMox - gotta love ProxMox. The electric company loves me 
I didn’t mention that as I wasn’t aware of the OP’s background/knowledge base on hypervisors. I too have a Windows VM but decided against running Vectric and some other software on it due to the lack of a viable passthrough GPU for it. If I ever add an extra GPU I may revert back to it though.
I started to use Windows VM on my newest install. I just got a decommissioned Dell D160 Gen9. It only has 72gig RAM and 8TB SAS with a single 16core chip and 1 empty socket. But it was free so… I just moved all my Proxmox VMs to the new rack mount. I need to put one of my power meters on it from Home Assistant to monitor the power flow.
PS. Don’t OS shame. LOL Yea I got everything from DOS to Win11. and the XP machine has MS BOB on it. LOL
Have you looked at Carveco? I am very happy with it and I believe they have a Mac version.
Welcome home brother, loads of help here, perhaps to the point of mass confusion, so here’s my 2 cents.
I run one windows computer with a remote touch screen in the shop. With this set up I can do it all from either location using the same computer. If I need to make a quick design change , either location works for me.
That said, my computer tech, notice I said “computer tech”, is trying really hard to get me to switch over to Linux, so I gave him one of my old laptops to convert to Linux so I can try it out. I haven’t got past this point yet, and I’m sure that by the time I do, you’ll have made your choice.
Good luck brother!
Ps, windows will not be supporting windows 10 after October of this year, so consider that as well.
Wow, Thank You everyone for your input. There are so many different ways to get the job done! I am currently leaning towards purchasing the console computer from Sienci to run the machine and for CAD/CAM using Carbide Create pro on a Mac mini. This is the easiest and simplest path for me as a beginner with my current computer knowledge and resources on hand. There are a lot of other considerations. I am just now rearranging my workshop to fit the Altmill into it. Lots of details like power circuits and filtering, lighting and dust collection. I already have a good dust collection system, a 2hp collector with a Merv 13 canister filter and a cyclone. This was a game changer for woodworking in my shop. The cyclone is the largest Dust Deputy model with a 5 inch inlet and outlet. It is so effective that in 5 years I have never had to empty the bag. I have emptied the cyclone collection bin at least a dozen times and there is only a couple of cups of fine dust in the bottom of the bag. I can’t stress enough how much of an improvement the cartridge filter is over a cloth bag. Way better filtering of the fine dust that is the most harmful to health and more CFM.
Cheers
Brian
Carveco works well (I’m using it for now on my Longmill as I don’t feel like dropping another $500 to upgrade my Vectric Desktop to Pro) but it’s Windows only.
My quick $0.02:
For real CAD/CAM, I use Fusion on macOS and it works great. I don’t use it for creating toolpaths and gcode, mostly because while you can make it do vcarving, it’s a bit of a hack to do it vs. being an intrinsic toolpath. It’s probably great for doing more conventional machining, but I’ve put no energy into learning that aspect.
Both Vcarve and Carveco are great. If you’re looking at Vcarve Pro, I think it’s better dollar-for-dollar than Carveco because you need Maker+ from Carveco to match/better VCP it and it has a high monthly fee.
The Parallels suggestions are great. I’ll tell you to not bother with any other VM software. VMWare is free but very slow and poorly integrated on ARM (M1/2/3/4) Macs. You’ll probably want a 3 button mouse, especially if you use Carveco, which almost requires it.
Take advantage of Vcarve allowing 3 installs. Buy a cheap Windows build laptop or take an older Intel Macbook and put Windows in a Bootcamp partition. I’m running my Carveco and Vcarve on a 2013 Intel Macbook Pro and it’s perfect. Add a Parallels setup on your main Mac when you want to use that, and then put the third in another convenient spot.
You can run VCarve on MacOS with Fusion and Parallels virtual machines. I’ve been using it on a Macbook Air with no issues.
VCarve is a great choice.
I save the tool paths from VCarve as gcode to open in gsender. I have a TrueNAS server for storage which I store all my files and access from Windows and/or MacOS.